Church and State: Politicians and Religious folk speak out

Or rather, it's the annual New College Lectures. The grab from the website:

"The 19th annual New College Lectures ... topic was Church & State: exploring views on the relevance of faith to politics. New College had three lecturers who shared much on this important topic: Mr John Anderson, MP, Mr Kevin Rudd, MP and Dr Andrew Cameron (Moore College) .

There has been much discussion in recent times concerning the role that the Church does and might play in relation to the State. The issue raises many questions:

• Should the Church involve itself in government or attempt to influence government policy?
  
• How should people of faith conduct themselves if elected to government?
  
• What part might their faith play in their actions?
  
• Should the role of the Church be restricted to merely commenting on values, moral issues and the like?
  
• If the latter is preferable what might constitute moral issues?
  
• Do 'moral' issues cover matters such as justice for the poor?
  
• Alternatively, are we a secular State, where religion and church have no relevance and should be kept at arms length? "

Download the PDF's:

Separating Australia: Church, State and recent Aussie thought
Transcript of the first New College Lecture given by Rev Dr Andrew Cameron

The role people of Faith can and do have in Politics
Transcript of the second New College Lecture given by The Hon John Anderson MP

Christianity and Politics
Transcript of the third New College Lecture given by Mr Kevin Rudd MP

Making it Work: Proposals for Future Engagement between Church & State
Transcript of the fourth New College Lecture given by Rev Dr Andrew Cameron

Rebel push to control churches

Rebel push to control churches
Jill Rowbotham, Religious affairs writer
12nov05

DISAFFECTED members of the Uniting Church in Australia will campaign to change state laws so they can keep their churches if they split with the denomination.NSW upper house MP Gordon Moyes, a minister in the church, plans to lodge a private member's bill to amend the state act under which a property trust owns and administers all property on behalf of congregations and community service organisations.

When Methodists, and most Congregationalists and Presbyterians, united in 1977, legislation was enacted in every state and territory.

Dr Moyes said it was never envisaged that they might want their properties back because "it was felt the proposed basis of union for the Uniting Church would be adhered to and there would never be dissatisfaction".

"When the Uniting Church came into being the courts decided that certain churches, schools and hospitals should either belong to the new Uniting Church or one of the continuing churches," he said. "Now a quarter of a century has passed that needs to be reviewed."

He proposes that if two-thirds of a congregation votes to leave the denomination, it should be allocated resources that might include the building in which it worships.

The move - led by the Evangelical Members of the Uniting Church and the Reforming Alliance within the Uniting Church, who are encouraging members to lobby MPs to support the bill - was prompted by dissatisfaction with responses from the church's leadership on the issue.

"Thousands, and perhaps tens of thousands, of the membership have left the church, dissatisfied with the moral and theological stance of the current leadership," Dr Moyes claimed. "If churches, schools or hospitals want to disaffiliate that should be possible."

He said it was a matter of justice that congregations that had built and paid for their properties should be able to have the titles restored to them if they left the church.

Uniting Church general secretary Terence Corkin said the church opposed the legislation, describing it as "neither helpful, nor necessary".

"The Uniting Church is not a company with shareholders, where if people want out they can sell up their share and cash it in," he said.

"The church is a community of people who are caretakers for the resources of that church over hundreds of years and we together hold that property to use it and redeploy it over a long period of time."

Mr Corkin said he thought that in many of the congregations the funds of the wider church had helped build the properties and establish the churches.

"Where's the justice in some people who do not happen to like a decision of the moment taking the asset for themselves and going their own way?" he asked.

Ordination of openly homosexual clergy is a source of division in the church but, according to Dr Moyes, a critic of the current leadership, there is also disagreement about theological education, the relative importance of evangelism and the church's general mission.

About 1.2 million Australians identify with the church, which has 250,000 regular parishioners.

© The Australian

2005 Boyer Lectures by Dr Peter Jensen

The Boyer Lectures have been delivered by prominent Australians, selected by the ABC Board, for over 40 years. They have stimulated thought, discussion and debate in Australia on a wide range of subjects. The lectures showcase great minds examining key issues and values.

2005 Boyer Lectures by Dr Peter Jensen
Sundays at 5pm, from 13 November 2005, repeated Tuesdays at 1pm (4pm in WA)

Jesus is more important to the Australian values of 'a fair go' and 'mateship' than the stories of the Eureka Stockade and Gallipoli; in forgetting him, as Australians we risk losing our core values now and in the future, warns Anglican Archbishop of Sydney Dr Peter Jensen in his 2005 Boyer Lectures, The Future of Jesus, beginning Sunday, 13 November.

'I want to provoke a national debate with the Jesus of the Gospels,' says Dr Jensen in his introduction. He aims to inspire widespread adult reading of the Gospels and recognition of the significance of Jesus for a modern world in which religion is increasingly on the agenda.

In six weekly lectures broadcast on ABC Radio National, Dr Jensen brings more than 40 years of theological experience to a detailed examination of the history, parables, miracles and promises of Jesus. He states that biblical stories are more important than ever in a modern world increasingly focused on individualism and its associated 'freedoms'.

Dr Jensen calls on both major political parties to look carefully at their notions of contemporary liberalism and to re-examine their parties' origins, values and the freedoms they advocate in the context of the changing society. 'Can we trust each other to use our freedom well? Will my freedom to bargain be at the expense of your ability to look after your family?'

To demonstrate the contemporary power of Jesus Dr Jensen also examines martyrdom as a contemporary and ancient phenomenon, and looks at the influence on American foreign policy of the belief of the millions who think that the second coming of Jesus is imminent.

Dr Jensen has been Archbishop of Sydney, the largest Diocese in the country, since 2001 and is Chair of the General Synod Doctrine Commission. He has written a number of books including The Quest For Power, At the Heart the Universe and The Revelation of God and in June this year presented the inaugural TC Hammond Lectures in Ireland.

Value systems at heart of union movement

Another (and much better) rejoinder to the anti-Christian sentiment in the announcement of Prof. Ian Harper's appointment as fair Pay Commissar (sorry - Commissioner) by Ruth Limkin in The Courier-Mail - who ably points out the historical legacy of Christinaity and Unionism. Alas and alack, the real history of Christian engagemnet in socoety gets forgotten time and time again (or is it suppressed?) to support alternative theories of how we got to where we are today. Or maybe people are just extraordinarlity self-absorbed and short sighted.

______________________________________________________


When union leaders criticised the new Fair Pay Commissioner for his values, they forgot unionism has a Christian heritage, writes Ruth Limkin.

In the midst of the raging debate about the industrial relations legislation, finally something has given us some light relief.

I have watched with great interest, and more than a little amusement, the response to comments made by the head of the new Fair Pay Commission, Professor Ian Harper.
Many of them are, (unwittingly I suspect), laced with a refreshing irony. With so much of the IR debate a little "same old, same old" it's been a nice change.

In the past week, Harper has been open about the fact he has a personal Christian faith, and has commented that it will guide his decisions. That has been enough to set off the nervous whispers about religion in the corridors of power and the accusations that the Prime Minister is being influenced by fundamentalism.

The responses by the secretary of the Australian Workers Union Queensland, Bill Ludwig, have been interesting.

Ludwig attacked Harper's comments, declaring them as an extraordinary development in 120 years of industrial relations.

That's an interesting perspective. Men of Harper's persuasion founded the trade union movement precisely because they were guided by their personal Christian faith.

Read more

Andrw Bolt's POV

From the less than left-leaning Herald-Sun's Andrew Bolt:

PROFESSOR Ian Harper has had a brutal lesson in theology from journalists and union leaders: God votes Labor. The rest is blasphemy.Last week Harper, appointed by the Howard Government to head its new Fair Pay Commission, declared he'd be guided in setting minimum wages by his Christian faith.

"I believe in God and I believe that God's will is important to be done in the world," he told the Australian Christian Lobby.

"It means I hold very dear to the values of fairness, justice, honesty, integrity in the process that I'll use to be making a decision with my fellow commissioners."

Uh, oh. He'd instantly become a laughing stock.

Typical of the mockers was the Australian Workers Union's Queensland secretary -- and Labor power broker -- Bill Ludwig, who attacked the comments of the conservative Harper as "extraordinary".

They showed that Prime Minister John Howard was getting too close to the devout politics of US President George W. Bush, Ludwig claimed, adding: "I hate to think our PM is influenced by fundamentalism."

Strong stuff. But sad, that a man who says his faith preaches fairness, justice and honesty is dismissed as sinister. A fundamentalist.

...more

Faith, a driving force in public duties

...or so went the title to my letter which was published, with some editing, in The Courier-Mail on Melbourne Cup Day (1 November 2005):

The kind of statements that Fair Pay Commission head Ian Harper is
making obviously alarms the secular media (Editorial, Oct 31). It is not used to Christianity taking a front row seat in day-to-day Australian political life, apart from the token Lord's Prayer to open Parliament.

Journalists like the rest of us, need to get with the times. Our Head of State is not only the Queen of Australia but also the head of the Church of England, a cementing of the Church / State relationship that happened half a millenia ago. Where is the problem with Harper "coming out" about his faith? Surely this reflects the wonderful diversity within Australian society. And if he wants to pray to one god, several or none at all, why isn't that diversity celebrated? Why the attempt to seal off his private life from his public duties? Surely one informs the other.

It is not for nothing that Australians call those holding public office to higher personal standards than the general community. Surely as one of the few bastions of freedom and openess remaining in our society, The Courier-Mail should be supporting public's has right to know what informs the decisions made by those who influence their lives?

What is needed is more of the kind of interviews done in the ABC's Compass program "What Our Leaders Believe" - an open and honest investigation of the internal driving forces of many of our nations leaders.